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Feb. 4th, 2004 07:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
urocyonA page a friend linked to in a different context got me thinking about anomie in the context of "ethnocide". Throw in economic exploitation (and the bottom completely falling out)--no wonder comparisons have been made to the Third World by those sympathetic* and those definitely not--and there are the WV/KY coalfields in a nutshell. (Take a look at that second link if you're interested in an amazing concentration of stereotypes, and some terrible-sounding recipes. Then again, the Foxfire series isn't the best source of cooking information, or much else.) Funny that I'd never connected the prevailing ills with Durkheim's terminology.
That is the way it frequently seems to work, though, with little explications which hit the right buttons; sometimes it takes a bit of a nudge to set off that "aha!" reaction. An essay I ran across recently on a Creek concept of Power helped me clarify my thinking on some things, and I didn't know there was quite so much to clear up on that subject still. *g*
A friend's recent post also got me thinking again about my choice of a rather quiet and private religious life of late. To some degree, that does seem to be my natural bent, but I do think I may have done myself a disservice by avoiding a more public role. I believe I've actively been avoiding responsibility because I do feel the weight of responsiblity pretty keenly; I've actually had to consider that, for example, were I to marry people and were the marriage to go horribly wrong, I might feel partly to blame for not spotting the potential problem and dealing with it appropriately. (As in, insisting on counselling or flat-out refusing to perform the ceremony in an extreme case.) Avoiding this touchiness and tendency to take on too much, rather than dealing with it and going about my business, doesn't seem as reasonable/sane an approach. There does seem to be a need for people willing and able to act as more public clergy in the local Pagan community--whatever that may be--and perhaps it's a decent sign that I'm not sure I'll ever be knowledgeable enough. Degrees in psychology and Celtic studies may not be necessary, but it is somehow less than comforting to tell myself that I'm at least as qualified as the average Holiness preacher. ;) **
* This particular locality, IIRC, is in the Rust Belt, but the same points apply to the coalfields. It is only implied here that the land, now largely owned by coal companies and the like, was taken from the inhabitants, who received a pittance if that. Additionally, the picture which is becoming clearer through research is one of many area Eastern Siouxan families having purchased or obtained through land grants title to some of their ancestral lands once they'd gotten British-enough-sounding names and/or relatives by marriage--only to be pitched off again a century or so later. (Incidentally, many of the ideas of "illiteracy" stem from this time; there are good reasons to play dumb when people come around and initially try to persuade you that it's in your best interest to give up use of your land.) We've been relatively lucky in this respect locally--not sitting on a lot of suddenly-valuable minerals *knock wood*--though our branch of the McCraws' fortunes suffered in a fit of pre-TVA madness; that homeplace (quite a large farm with good, silty river bottom land) is now sitting on the bottom of Claytor Lake. I believe the official story now is that only a few Dunkards lived in the area now covered by the lake--suitably quaint, perhaps?
** If that's what they overwhelmingly choose to call themselves, I have little choice but to use the term as well.
That is the way it frequently seems to work, though, with little explications which hit the right buttons; sometimes it takes a bit of a nudge to set off that "aha!" reaction. An essay I ran across recently on a Creek concept of Power helped me clarify my thinking on some things, and I didn't know there was quite so much to clear up on that subject still. *g*
A friend's recent post also got me thinking again about my choice of a rather quiet and private religious life of late. To some degree, that does seem to be my natural bent, but I do think I may have done myself a disservice by avoiding a more public role. I believe I've actively been avoiding responsibility because I do feel the weight of responsiblity pretty keenly; I've actually had to consider that, for example, were I to marry people and were the marriage to go horribly wrong, I might feel partly to blame for not spotting the potential problem and dealing with it appropriately. (As in, insisting on counselling or flat-out refusing to perform the ceremony in an extreme case.) Avoiding this touchiness and tendency to take on too much, rather than dealing with it and going about my business, doesn't seem as reasonable/sane an approach. There does seem to be a need for people willing and able to act as more public clergy in the local Pagan community--whatever that may be--and perhaps it's a decent sign that I'm not sure I'll ever be knowledgeable enough. Degrees in psychology and Celtic studies may not be necessary, but it is somehow less than comforting to tell myself that I'm at least as qualified as the average Holiness preacher. ;) **
* This particular locality, IIRC, is in the Rust Belt, but the same points apply to the coalfields. It is only implied here that the land, now largely owned by coal companies and the like, was taken from the inhabitants, who received a pittance if that. Additionally, the picture which is becoming clearer through research is one of many area Eastern Siouxan families having purchased or obtained through land grants title to some of their ancestral lands once they'd gotten British-enough-sounding names and/or relatives by marriage--only to be pitched off again a century or so later. (Incidentally, many of the ideas of "illiteracy" stem from this time; there are good reasons to play dumb when people come around and initially try to persuade you that it's in your best interest to give up use of your land.) We've been relatively lucky in this respect locally--not sitting on a lot of suddenly-valuable minerals *knock wood*--though our branch of the McCraws' fortunes suffered in a fit of pre-TVA madness; that homeplace (quite a large farm with good, silty river bottom land) is now sitting on the bottom of Claytor Lake. I believe the official story now is that only a few Dunkards lived in the area now covered by the lake--suitably quaint, perhaps?
** If that's what they overwhelmingly choose to call themselves, I have little choice but to use the term as well.
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Date: 2004-02-04 11:30 pm (UTC)Oh, and Irish "martial arts"? We have one - hurling - and it's bloody popular even today. It's also one of the oldest if not the oldest team field sport in the world (IIRC, only polo can claim to be older and that's just hurling on horseback) and most of that Shillelagh bollocks is a 19th century invention.
I can assure you that had it existed to the degree claimed by the author of that webpage I would most certainly have heard of it - instead our history lessons included useful tips such as how to turn common agricultural implements into weapons of war, since that was not only history, but something that the ancestors of the majority of my year at school were personally involved in.
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Date: 2004-02-04 11:38 pm (UTC)"Hereditary warriors" my arse. The "hereditary warriors" in Ireland had either taken nice big bribes to become anglicised or buggered off out of the country long before this moron's time frame.
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Date: 2004-02-05 10:50 am (UTC)"Hereditary warriors" my arse.
Indeed.
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Date: 2004-02-05 02:20 pm (UTC)A lot of Irish-Americans seem to be like that. They want some ethnic pride and cultural identifiers, but choose the Cliffs Notes version. Shamrocks and green beer. When I was first heading off to Ireland myself, I was really curious to see how much of my family's behaviour was an accurate reflection of Irish culture. I was raised on soda bread, but it had raisins in it. That sort of thing. I think I'm about the only one with a scholarly interest rather than a "give me Waterford on my wedding day" sort of interest.
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Date: 2004-02-05 03:21 pm (UTC)I can understand your frustration with the apparent lack of interest in any depth of learning about the actual culture people claim to be expressing directly. Saying, "this is how things have evolved in the diaspora," and going on to learn more about how they started, is one thing; willful ignorance is another. It reminds me very much of people I know who are very interested in their Indian heritage, but approach it in ways which would be laughable if they weren't so sad (frequently in a "mishmash of cultural appropriation" sort of way).
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Date: 2004-02-06 09:09 am (UTC)What simultaneously amuses and irritates me are those who expect the Irish (and by now "the Irish" is just being used as an example) to fit their perceptions of what they should be like, as if the actions of said person's ancestors leaving that country deprived said country of the right to evolve.
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Date: 2004-02-06 12:34 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-06 08:38 pm (UTC)Oh yes, the delightful "you're not whatever enough!" comments. I've gotten those on occasion. "You can't be Irish! You never drink!" was a real life example. [rolls eyes] The same person went on about the lack of "wearin' o' the green", too, as if this invalidated my geneaology. I blandly asked if I should put on me leprechaun shoes, and she got very confused and wandered off. Yeesh. It's terrifying that there are any people who *actually expect* me to militantly wear green at all times and stagger down the block (again, pick whatever cultural/geneaological stereotype suits your fancy) because both sets of grandparents immigrated from an island 70 years ago. Stunning. Or the idiot who thought that my Chinese friend couldn't have a TV even though her family's been here far longer than mine has, because "China's not like that".
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Date: 2004-02-06 08:30 pm (UTC)Yes, precisely. Many of the mannerisms and such of my family seem to be actually rooted in Ireland -- there are unique turns of phrase and pronunciation that are carried over, foods that are served, the way that religion is usually approached... those seem to be pretty much like they still do it in Ireland, from my limited observation time there. But the things that they do because they think they're supposed to be Irish (green beer, shamrock tattoos, grinning and saying "Erin go bragh!" in bad accents) seem to be unique to Irish-Americans. The actual Irish I know have some pretty humorous things to say about the way that we do St. Patrick's Day over here. [grins]
I think this is one of the reasons that I like the "wild geese" tales and poems; they capture some of the feelings of longing and exile that I have (for a country I've been to once, for a week -- so weird, but I suppose less so when you are reared on "Ireland is paradise") without pretending to be something that I'm not (authentic Irish-from-Ireland-now).
I would like to see my family either stop claiming to be all into "their heritage from the Old Country", or to bother to learn what it was actually about. But I suspect that neither will happen, and they'll go on in semi-authentic ignorance. Sigh, wince, wince.
As for the further North melting pot... that's a strange cultural disaffect between me and my parents. Both parents were born up North -- Mom in Boston, Dad in Philly. But they had a family and raised kids in Mississippi. So I consider myself a Southerner, culturally. I was raised in that sort of atmosphere and picked up a lot of the values and traits without realizing it. There were definite experiences of culture shock when my parents took the kids up North to see the relatives once a year or so. (They thought we were slow because of the way we spoke, which is in large part responsible for the erosion of my Mississippi accent. My sister and I both definitely had them, my parents never did.) So it's the same principle all over again... Northern-Southern-Irish-American. Got any more descriptors? I have a few hyphens left over... [grin]
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Date: 2004-02-06 09:07 am (UTC)The "I'm Irish, let's celebrate St. Patrick's Day" crowd annoy me, but nowhere near as much as "I'm Irish, I'm a Celtic mystic/anti-the-oppressor/know everything about the country" people. I *am* Irish. I will not talk authoritatively on major issues after 1994, because that's when I left the country. I will talk about certain issues, because I see them when I go to visit my family or my friends. But I will *not* sit there and listen to some foreigner lecture me about the political structure of Northern Ireland and attitudes to it in the Republic because she obviously knows better than me because she went on holiday to Dublin last year. (I think you can figure out that one actually happened.) I will listen politely and interestedly if someone wants to give me their perspective on it, but not if they want to present their distant perspective as fact.
Now that I think of it, I hope I haven't committed any of these crimes myself when talking about the South to urocyon_c!
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Date: 2004-02-06 12:20 pm (UTC)Not that I've noticed. Anything you've had to say has come across as showing interest, rather than asserting absolute knowledge. :) (Yes, a rather major peeve, at this point.) It is also obvious that you're not prone to relying on facile, surface interpretations of history.
I have not studied enough about Irish history to make many useful statements, so I tend to keep my mouth shut. For that matter, I don't know nearly enough about the Deep South, which I should also remedy--I could probably make people horribly angry going on about it, at this point. *g*
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Date: 2004-02-06 08:57 pm (UTC)Re:
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Date: 2004-02-05 12:06 pm (UTC)Yes, another tangential comment, but that was a truly appalling recipe. *g*
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Date: 2004-02-05 02:10 pm (UTC)I am very amused by the "how to turn common agricultural implements into weapons of war", though, because that's precisely what the martial arts style that I primarily study (Shorin Ryu Matsumura, from Okinawa) was rooted in. The Japanese invaded Okinawa and took all the local weapons, so the farmers were left with tonfa and staffs and things like that. No kendo for Okinawa. Unfortunately, Shorin Ryu doesn't have a cane as one of the weapons you study.
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Date: 2004-02-05 02:51 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-05 04:12 pm (UTC)Short staff probably was part of Irish military training (hurling definitely was - see the Ulster Cycle for that) but it's also a common fighting technique worldwide, both as a form of training for using bigger, nastier weapons later, and as a legitmate defence method in its own right.
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Date: 2004-02-06 09:03 pm (UTC)The main problem that I'm having with the cane is that I need it for balance, so using it for hitting or blocking without losing balance is tricky. I've been experimenting with just using it as a balance point while kicking, etc. as per normal, but that's also still awkward. A lot more work is still needed.
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Date: 2004-02-07 11:46 pm (UTC)At one point in time, we were going to work on ways to use my cane (white cane for the blind) for self defense within Aikido. But with Aikido, it'd really just get in the way. Now just need to work on Skya getting out of the way while I defend myself. I'm a bit paranoid she'd try to do it for me and get hurt.